|
Post by Mighty Mouse on Apr 23, 2015 13:50:58 GMT -5
And for what it's worth, I could see Kevin Love in San Antonio. But I think he'll stick in Cleveland. Isn't Aldridge supposed to head to San Antonio? You shut your mouth when you're typing at me.
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Mouse on Apr 23, 2015 14:05:39 GMT -5
Sent from The Office of the Phoenix Suns General Manager I hate that you think this. You can't compare an elite rebounder to Channing Frye. The only thing Channing Frye can do is shoot, and Love has a better shot. Love's also a way better passer. Love's also been one of the best players in the NBA the last 5 years, Frye is a 4th option at best. Disagree. Saying Love is a very good Channing Frye is pretty accurate. They're stretch 4's. They are both very good shooters. Love is an overrated rebounder (still better than Frye though). Frye isn't a terrible defender, and I remember him setting some pretty good screens in Portland (surely that isn't something he's lost, right?) Love's only true elite skill is his passing and unless the offense is being run through him (it isn't in Cleveland), the impact of that skill is kind of minimal. If you make Love the centerpiece of your team, he's obviously going to perform much better than Frye. But if you put Frye in Love's spot in Cleveland, I doubt you see a big difference in the win/loss column.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 15:12:37 GMT -5
Isn't Aldridge supposed to head to San Antonio? You shut your mouth when you're typing at me. I'd like him to stay in Portland. I have him on my team in Miege's league. I also won the championship in that league. I didn't go undefeated, but LMA, Westbrook, and Wiggins powered me to victory. I went 20-0 in this league though. Only team to ever do that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 15:38:18 GMT -5
I hate that you think this. You can't compare an elite rebounder to Channing Frye. The only thing Channing Frye can do is shoot, and Love has a better shot. Love's also a way better passer. Love's also been one of the best players in the NBA the last 5 years, Frye is a 4th option at best. Disagree. Saying Love is a very good Channing Frye is pretty accurate. They're stretch 4's. They are both very good shooters. Love is an overrated rebounder (still better than Frye though). Frye isn't a terrible defender, and I remember him setting some pretty good screens in Portland (surely that isn't something he's lost, right?) Love's only true elite skill is his passing and unless the offense is being run through him (it isn't in Cleveland), the impact of that skill is kind of minimal. If you make Love the centerpiece of your team, he's obviously going to perform much better than Frye. But if you put Frye in Love's spot in Cleveland, I doubt you see a big difference in the win/loss column. The guy has a career rebounding average of 12 per game and was referred to by JR Smith as the "greatest rebounder he's ever seen." How, exactly is his rebounding overrated? And I couldn't disagree more about Frye/Love. Love is so much better than Frye, it's not even funny. Love was the centerpiece of a team last year that could have made the playoffs, had it not been for all the injuries. You couldn't do that with Frye. Love put up 26-12.5-4.5 as a number one option last year. Love is the number 3 option this year, and he's still performed very well at 16-10 DESPITE dealing with a bad back all year. Channing Frye has never reached 7 rebounds per game and he's a horrible passer. Saying Love is a better Channing Frye is in no way, shape, or form accurate.
|
|
|
Post by TrailDucker on Apr 23, 2015 15:51:23 GMT -5
You shut your mouth when you're typing at me. I'd like him to stay in Portland. I have him on my team in Miege's league. I also won the championship in that league. I didn't go undefeated, but LMA, Westbrook, and Wiggins powered me to victory. I went 20-0 in this league though. Only team to ever do that. Our undefeated league champion is an impostor! Look, three times he was defeated this year! HereHereHereNot so undefeated now!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 16:05:50 GMT -5
I'd like him to stay in Portland. I have him on my team in Miege's league. I also won the championship in that league. I didn't go undefeated, but LMA, Westbrook, and Wiggins powered me to victory. I went 20-0 in this league though. Only team to ever do that. Our undefeated league champion is an impostor! Look, three times he was defeated this year! HereHereHereNot so undefeated now! I'm too smart for all of you. I was just playing mind games and driving up prices. Fools!
|
|
|
Post by San Diego Scorpions on Apr 23, 2015 20:18:51 GMT -5
I hate that you think this. You can't compare an elite rebounder to Channing Frye. The only thing Channing Frye can do is shoot, and Love has a better shot. Love's also a way better passer. Love's also been one of the best players in the NBA the last 5 years, Frye is a 4th option at best. Disagree. Saying Love is a very good Channing Frye is pretty accurate. They're stretch 4's. They are both very good shooters. Love is an overrated rebounder (still better than Frye though). Frye isn't a terrible defender, and I remember him setting some pretty good screens in Portland (surely that isn't something he's lost, right?) Love's only true elite skill is his passing and unless the offense is being run through him (it isn't in Cleveland), the impact of that skill is kind of minimal. If you make Love the centerpiece of your team, he's obviously going to perform much better than Frye. But if you put Frye in Love's spot in Cleveland, I doubt you see a big difference in the win/loss column. People seem to disregard Love's rebounding because he was on a bad team, if that's true then why aren't there players averaging 12+ rebounds on the other 15 or so bad teams every year? Because Love is an elite rebounder. Plus Love's scoring ability is on another planet when compared to Frye's, Frye couldn't average 26 points if his life depended on it, he could never even average 16 and 10. There's a reason Dewayne Dedmon stole Frye's starting position from him in Orlando. I get they are PF's that can shoot but that's where the comparison ends.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 20:47:01 GMT -5
Love throwing daggers in Boston tonight. He's totally leaving after this season.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 2:30:59 GMT -5
20 and 10 guys come and go in the league pretty often. David Lee before this season had averaged 18.7 ppg, 10.3 rpg, and 3 apg (pretty close to 20 and 10) and is now touted as one of the most overpaid players. Granted Kevin Love has a slightly better defense than Lee from the games I've seen, but what's to say a David Lee scenario doesn't happen to him? My biggest qualm with giving Love a max contract is that there are a handful of players who give teams defense and a 20 - 10 for less. Milsap being one that comes to mind, averaging near stats (little less REB but more AST and STL) and is being paid 7.2 million less. That 7.2 million difference could pay for another strong starter, or even a back up if a starter gets injured. After following the NBA's salary cap and salary rules for over 10 years, I've come to the conclusion that they give out max salaries too often.
With the upcoming salary cap increasing by a projected 30 million next summer, as well as another huge bump to be expected the season after we will sadly see more max contracts offered. I'm sure when the next lockout occurs they'll raise the maximum salary rather than doing the right thing and raise the league minimum and rookie contracts by a significant amount.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 7:30:03 GMT -5
20 and 10 guys come and go in the league pretty often. David Lee before this season had averaged 18.7 ppg, 10.3 rpg, and 3 apg (pretty close to 20 and 10) and is now touted as one of the most overpaid players. Granted Kevin Love has a slightly better defense than Lee from the games I've seen, but what's to say a David Lee scenario doesn't happen to him? My biggest qualm with giving Love a max contract is that there are a handful of players who give teams defense and a 20 - 10 for less. Milsap being one that comes to mind, averaging near stats (little less REB but more AST and STL) and is being paid 7.2 million less. That 7.2 million difference could pay for another strong starter, or even a back up if a starter gets injured. After following the NBA's salary cap and salary rules for over 10 years, I've come to the conclusion that they give out max salaries too often. With the upcoming salary cap increasing by a projected 30 million next summer, as well as another huge bump to be expected the season after we will sadly see more max contracts offered. I'm sure when the next lockout occurs they'll raise the maximum salary rather than doing the right thing and raise the league minimum and rookie contracts by a significant amount. Millsap has NEVER been a 20-10 guy. Never. He can't score like Love and he doesn't rebound like Love. Love is putting up better numbers than Millsap and he's the third option on the Cavs. Millsap also can't shoot it like Love can. David Lee has never been known as a defensive player. Yeah, he used to be able to rebound and score, but he's never been a shooter. Kevin Love is a guy who has a high basketball IQ, great court vision, can pass, knows how to spread the floor, can take guys in the post, and if you've watched the Cavs as much as I have (and Miege), you'd agree that his D hasn't been as bad as people make it out to be. Plus, just having Love on the court changes the dynamic for how teams have to play. He's got multiple weapons he can beat you with.
|
|
|
Post by NAUHurdler on Apr 24, 2015 7:55:08 GMT -5
Disagree. Saying Love is a very good Channing Frye is pretty accurate. They're stretch 4's. They are both very good shooters. Love is an overrated rebounder (still better than Frye though). Frye isn't a terrible defender, and I remember him setting some pretty good screens in Portland (surely that isn't something he's lost, right?) If you make Love the centerpiece of your team, he's obviously going to perform much better than Frye. But if you put Frye in Love's spot in Cleveland, I doubt you see a big difference in the win/loss column. Exactly my point. Everyone keeps thinking I'm saying they are EQUAL players when I've mentioned multiple times the word glorified. I get it, he's better. I know that. I'm saying he's not some franchise changing talent that immediately makes your team world's better. Again, if I'm building an NBA real life franchise and I have the option of a combo like Frye and Gorgui Dieng on cheap deals vs Love at max, I'm never taking Love. I mention Dieng as well in that because he could easily replace the rebounds Frye wouldn't produce while also actually protecting the paint on defense, unlike Love's ability to do so. Sent from The Office of the Phoenix Suns General Manager
|
|
|
Post by NAUHurdler on Apr 24, 2015 7:56:35 GMT -5
Omg I suck with this quote shit too
Sent from The Office of the Phoenix Suns General Manager
|
|
|
Post by Roar GM (Josh) on Apr 24, 2015 8:52:22 GMT -5
20 and 10 guys come and go in the league pretty often. Not sure what league you're talking about but a 19+ 9+ (I was giving you a little leeway) season has only occurred 20x in the past 5 seasons. Love, Howard, Davis, Aldridge, Griffin, and Cousins were all on there multiple times. To say 20 and 10 guys come and go pretty often is just factually inaccurate. This whole conversation is so silly. I tend to view all of you guys as basketball fans who know something about the game. Kevin Love is a top 10 player in the NBA. Period. His Win Shares last year (as a #1 option) almost doubled that of Frye and Dieng's career years. While the jury is still out on whether he's a good stats, bad team guy, there is no questioning his talent.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 9:07:23 GMT -5
Depending on the part of the floor Millsap shoots it better or worse than Love. Both Love and Millsap average exactly the same amount of FGA (12.7). Atlanta uses a system that shares the ball more than typical teams. Millsap being the player with most attempts. Millsap has not ever averaged 20 and 10, but there is an argument to be said that his defensive stops (1.1 steal difference) render the difference of 1.9 rebounds to be practically even.
Millsap shoots a FG% of 47.6% while Love shoots a FG% of 43.4 (4.2% greater). Love shoots a 3PT of 36.7% while Millsap at 35.6% (1.1% greater). In regards to playmaking ability both players are very close. Milsap has an AST/TO of 1.35 while Love has a slightly higher rate of 1.38.
Love's defense isn't that bad I agree. Millsap does though have practically the same skill set as Love.
I am a fan of Kevin Love, but I just worry that the NBA gives out too many Max Contracts, when a combination of role players can make a greater difference (aka the Hawks). This is not to say that I think Atlanta can beat Cleveland. But rather if LeBron, Love or Irving were to get injured I'd be seriously concerned about their chances of making it to the finals. The money difference can really help fill out a team. I guess this is sort of a Moneyball look to it. (Note: in our league I think a moneyball approach can provide greater results in defense of Phoenix)
Cleveland will be a titan team when they have a few mid-level exceptions used to fill out the rest of their roster. Gilbert will go into luxury tax to win, something I wish more team owners would be willing to do.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 9:12:50 GMT -5
I was using Lee as a player who was once a 20 and 10, every year it really shifts. Some guys can average it one year, and then won't the next depending on the system they play in, as well as teams doing a better job adjusting. Hence why i used the phrase "come and go". I dont think Love will average 20 points while in this current situation in Cleveland much like when Bosh played with LeBron in Miami.
|
|