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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 16:22:38 GMT -5
I think it's unlikely LeBron leaves again, but if he did, its going to be because he leaves. Not because the team didn't want to bring him back. That much I can (almost) guarantee you.
Besides, I happen to think LeBron's game is going to age really well, so the whole discussion is probably moot.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 16:24:45 GMT -5
Here is another question. If the Cavs knew for sure they'd be getting LeBron, who do they draft with the #1 pick? Embiid (if healthy) seems like the perfect fit. Kyrie Irving Dion Waiters/Ray Allen LeBron James Tristan Thompson/Anthony Bennett Joel Embiid Balance. Embiid, if healthy, sure. But given that that wasn't a real option, Wiggins still makes the most sense.
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Post by Mighty Mouse on Jul 16, 2014 16:42:43 GMT -5
Embiid unhealthy doesn't make sense for anyone. He still got drafted third on the assumption that he would someday be healthy. It will be interesting to see if Cleveland regrets that decision in a year or two.
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Post by NAUHurdler on Jul 16, 2014 16:53:40 GMT -5
Agreed. He would leave IMO to go to New York and live that huge city huge market lifestyle to complete his NBA playing career and start his next career, whatever that may be. I think it's unlikely LeBron leaves again, but if he did, its going to be because he leaves. Not because the team didn't want to bring him back. That much I can (almost) guarantee you. Besides, I happen to think LeBron's game is going to age really well, so the whole discussion is probably moot. Sent from my SPH-L720 using proboards
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 22:02:50 GMT -5
LeBron and Durant to Brooklyn in 2016. You heard it here first, mothabrothas!
#Bron4Prez2016BKN #Durant4VP2016BKN
Don't mess with the Nets
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 22:04:48 GMT -5
Embiid unhealthy doesn't make sense for anyone. He still got drafted third on the assumption that he would someday be healthy. It will be interesting to see if Cleveland regrets that decision in a year or two. Philly will be so good so soon. Imagine a lineup of: MCW Lottery pick in 2015 Saric Embiid Noel And they have gobs of cap if they want to replace anyone/sign bench guys. Philly gonna be playing 2nd banana to the Nets in the Atlantic for years to come!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 22:20:02 GMT -5
LeBron and Durant to Brooklyn in 2016. You heard it here first, mothabrothas! #Bron4Prez2016BKN #Durant4VP2016BKN Don't mess with the Nets
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Post by Walker (Newark GM) on Jul 17, 2014 21:18:34 GMT -5
With Wiggins included in the Love talks, a deal seems imminent. I think the Cavaliers are easily a top 3 team if they pull off a deal to land Love.
What's concerning is Wiggins in Minnesota. Minnesota is blowing it up and they don't have any real veterans to lead Wiggins and show him the ropes. Add in the fact that his coach despises playing rookies and there could be some real bust potential there. I thought Cleveland was the perfect fit for Wiggins because there would be no pressure to come in and be the man immediately. He instantly becomes a top offensive option now in Minnesota with only Pekovic and possibly Kevin Martin (if he's not included in the deal) to take his touches. A little bit concerning, in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 23:41:40 GMT -5
My issues with moving Wiggins for Love are twofold. First, what was one of the (supposed) complaints LeBron had about his last year in Miami? He was playing too many minutes and spending too much time guarding the other team's best perimeter defender. Now, it just so happens that the Cavs drafted a guy without endless athleticism and unlimited potential who plays the same position as LeBron. He's a guy that already gets after it defensively, and is as close to a sure thing as you can get as far as defensive ability is concerned. He's going to be playing with the best player in the game every single day. He's a smart kid and a quick learner. You don't think his progression is going to be accelerated playing next to LeBron?
Second, it seems like those in favor of doing this now are pushing the "Cavs become instant contenders" argument, but do they? Kevin Love does not address the main concerns on this team (no rim-protector, no backup point guard, defense in general). When you also consider that any trade with Wiggins as the centerpiece is going to have to include other guys on this team due to salary concerns, I just don't understand why you make the move. You're selling the farm for a guy that helps tremendously on offense, sure, but does nothing to solve the weaknesses. Now if you're getting Dieng and Brewer back, maybe I see the point. But that's the only way I see this being a win.
Again, I'm of the opinion the Cavs should wait. The Cavs have the leverage here. Kevin Love is leaving. We know that. If the Cavs don't trade for him, big deal. They still have LeBron, Kyrie, Wiggins and a bunch of young guys. Sooner or later, the Wolves are going to have to make a move. I don't see any other team stepping to the plate. There's no reason to put your best offer on the table in the middle of July. The longer this goes, the more appealing that Dion-Bennett pu pu platter is going to look. Let this thing play out.
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Post by moltreszwarriors (Shock GM) on Jul 18, 2014 1:10:04 GMT -5
As an neutral observer, I agree with what you said. Wiggins has some definite Pippen potential next to Lebron, and Jordan never played with a point guard even remotely resembling the skills of Kyrie. The best case scenario for this team looks downright scary and the worst case scenario isn't too dim either. I think they would do this deal because it will probably make them better in the short term and they don't want to waste Lebron's prime while Wiggins develops, but I think Wiggins a big enough talent and good enough right away for this to not be a good idea, and most people seem to agree.
But what you have to keep in mind is that this might be one of the worst front offices in sports. The Cavs lucked out big time with the lottery (three times in four years! Seriously, that can't be allowed, but at least they never egregiously tanked) and big time with Lebron, but their decisions have just been awful, from their coaching hires (Mike Brown twice! Though I really like Blatt, I'm surprised Cleveland hired him) to their lottery picks (Kyrie and Wiggins given the Embiid injury were too obvious to blow, and even then there were some pretty strong signals that the Cavs were going to take Jabari, while they reached on Thompson instead of waiting a year for Valanciunas and the Bennett thing was odd at best. Can you imagine if they took Oladipo instead? Though if they fulfill Gilbert's goal last year of making the playoffs, they don't get Wiggins and maybe don't get Lebron back. The luck of this team, my God. It's just unfair. But I digress).
So basically, yes, this decision is wrong, but it's not surprising if this does happen. Their terrible moves have worked out before out of dumb luck, so who knows? Maybe Love will improve as a defender, and he should open up their offense no question.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 2:37:15 GMT -5
I guess Cavs front office is franctically trying to prevent making the same mistake twice (not giving Lebron a good supporting cast). As said, the Twolves have a problem with their star wanting to leave, the Cavs don't have to hurry to make moves.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 14:32:42 GMT -5
I think it's all fixed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 15:28:15 GMT -5
You know, I kind of resent the line of thinking. So the Cavs have made nothing but bad decisions, but when they make good decisions they don't count? What kind of ish is that? Sure they've made mistakes, every front office has (even Miami), but I'd say they're not even close to being the worst front office in the league. Let's take a look:
-Traded Mo Williams for Baron Davis and LAC's unprotected #1 pick. UNPROTECTED. The very pick that became Kyrie Irving. So you can argue that the Cavs lucked out, but they created their own luck in this situation. -Attempted to sign Kyle Lowry, and did, only to see offer matched (he was a RFA). The Cavs were ahead of the game in trying to lock down Kyle. -Traded JJ Hickson for Omri and Sacramento's first (this came in handy a little later). -Claimed Jon Leuer off waivers, then flipped him for Speights, Ellington, and Memphis' lotto-guaranteed pick. -Traded Ramon Sessions for the Lakers' pick (became #19) -Acquired Orlando's 2nd round pick the year before he left for LA (either 31 or 32). -Selected Kyrie Irving when some experts thought they should grab Derrick Williams and Brandon Knight.
You can question the picks of Waiters and Bennett, I guess. They probably should have taken Drummond, but they did not think he had the drive to be great. You can't really use Oladipo as a valid reason against Bennett because they weren't going to take him after taking Waiters. Not to mention Oladipo didn't exactly set the world on fire. Really, the only one I'd argue that they should have taken over Bennett is Noel, but his knee was red flagged by the medical staff. Thompson was a mistake, I agree. Didn't like it at the time. Don't like it now. Oh well.
I don't fault them for the moves of the past offseason. They attempted to make the playoffs, and they did what they could to get there. It backfired. Amazingly, they get criticized for trading for Deng and Hawes, but what did they really give up? A couple of second round picks. They didn't give up a 1st, unless you count the Sacramento pick, but who the hell knows if the Bulls will ever see that?
Here's the line that gets me though:
What? If a move works out, how is it terrible? Everyone panned the Grizzlies for trading Pau Gasol. Said it was awful. It got them Marc Gasol. They panned the Grizzlies for grabbing Zach Randolph. Said he's an overpaid chucker that could never be on a winning team. The Grizzlies have had more success with him than ever before. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the NBA landscape is riddled with terrible move. Many of them work out. You know why? Because people are so quick to judge things that they don't all them time to play out.
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Post by moltreszwarriors (Shock GM) on Jul 18, 2014 18:47:15 GMT -5
Well, allow me to retort.
First of all, almost everyone projected Kyrie to go #1. Sure, a few thought they should take Derrick Williams, but those were a vastly outnumbered minority. As for the Oladipo thing, I don't see why you choose Waiters over him, but fine, fair enough.
And what Memphis did was different. They gambled on Gasol and Randolph and it payed off. The Cavs went all in for the playoffs and missed out in an incredibly weak East, and then got Wiggins for their troubles. You can't attribute that to anything but dumb luck.
But you do make a good point about some of the Cavaliers previous moves. It isn't entirely fair for me to nitpick their worst decisions while they have made some decent ones. Calling their front office one of the worst front offices in sports may have been an exaggeration, but they still have to be in the bottom half somewhere. And Dan Gilbert agrees with me. He fired the GM partway through last season.
I'm just saying, you can't deny that the Cavs have been incredibly lucky to get to this position. I'm just saying, most teams who are this good have better front offices.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 23:03:54 GMT -5
Well, allow me to retort. First of all, almost everyone projected Kyrie to go #1. Sure, a few thought they should take Derrick Williams, but those were a vastly outnumbered minority. As for the Oladipo thing, I don't see why you choose Waiters over him, but fine, fair enough. And what Memphis did was different. They gambled on Gasol and Randolph and it payed off. The Cavs went all in for the playoffs and missed out in an incredibly weak East, and then got Wiggins for their troubles. You can't attribute that to anything but dumb luck. But you do make a good point about some of the Cavaliers previous moves. It isn't entirely fair for me to nitpick their worst decisions while they have made some decent ones. Calling their front office one of the worst front offices in sports may have been an exaggeration, but they still have to be in the bottom half somewhere. And Dan Gilbert agrees with me. He fired the GM partway through last season. I'm just saying, you can't deny that the Cavs have been incredibly lucky to get to this position. I'm just saying, most teams who are this good have better front offices. I didn't. And neither did the Cavs. They were in two separate drafts. You can't criticize the Cavs for not taking Oladipo when they already took Waiters. It would be like criticizing them for not taking MCW. He's not an option with Kyrie there. And the problem IS Gilbert. He's the one that pushed for Jack and Bynum. He's the one that wanted to make the playoffs. He's the one that refused to let the Cavs trade out of the #1 spot last year (had a deal in place with OKC for 12 and Lamb). But here's the thing. Both the Jack and Bynum signings were met with approval, for the most part. It was "smart" for the Cavs to sign a veteran guard like Jack, or to take a gamble on Bynum because it didn't hurt them if it didn't work out. They were solid moves, then when they went bust, all these people are out here saying, "See? What a dumb move!" I'm sorry, but that's a pile of crap. As far as the Kyrie pick, my point is you can't just not give them credit because it was the "consensus" pick. SO many picks have been lauded as good picks on draft night, only to see them go bust. These guys making the mocks really don't know jack. It seems like the Cavaliers backlash comes from them winning the draft lotto 3 times in 4 years. Why? That could have happened to any team. Why are people pissed that it happened to the Cavs?
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